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Other => Community Discussions (Non-Forum Related) => Topic started by: hpguru on August 15, 2002, 11:50:34 PM

Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: hpguru on August 15, 2002, 11:50:34 PM
Disabling graphics in web browsers violates copyright law
http://www.politechbot.com/p-03895.html

Facing each other,
a thousand miles apart.
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: altosax on August 16, 2002, 12:55:37 AM
quote:

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:12:27 -0400
To: [email protected]
From: Doug Isenberg <[email protected]>
Subject: Pop-up ads and the law

Declan:

   As you know, a district court judge recently entered a preliminary
injunction against Gator in a lawsuit brought by numerous website news
publishers over Gator's pop-up advertising service.  In my most recent
column for The Wall Street Journal Online (now available on GigaLaw.com at
http://www.gigalaw.com/articles/2002/isenberg-2002-08.html), I examine the
potential greater effect of this lawsuit.  For example: "Terence Ross of
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, the news publishers' attorney, even told me that
he thinks Internet users who configure their browsers to disable graphics
(a common tactic to boost the speed of Web surfing) are committing
copyright infringement because they are interfering with Web publishers'
exclusive right to control how their pages are displayed."

Doug Isenberg, Esq.
Author, "The GigaLaw Guide to Internet Law" (Random House, October 2002):
http://www.GigaLaw.com/guide



yes, i'm interfering with web publishers' exclusive right to control how their page are displayed, but web publishers are interfering with my private life and my right to control what content i'm expecting to view on a web page.

altosax.

 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: pooms on August 16, 2002, 01:26:13 AM
Well, that's B.S., HTML authors have never had an "exclusive right
to control how their pages are displayed". That's not what HTML
is about. If they want that, they should use PDF or something.

I dare them to try and say that a sight-impaired person must not
increase font sizes because it "interferes" with the web publishers'
rights!


 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: hpguru on August 16, 2002, 01:36:20 AM
I agree with you 100% but with the current DRM lunacy that's about one can only wonder how long it will be before what we do becomes a felony. It may sound nutty but it wasn't very long ago the US congress was discussing the legalization of hacking by content owners.


Facing each other,
a thousand miles apart.
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: Arne on August 16, 2002, 02:40:10 AM
Well, here the word Copyright is meaningless. We do not have either the word nor any law called this. Allthough many Scandinavian sites puts this word at the bottom of their webpages, it is totally meaningless.

That does not mean the content is not protected, but it is protected under a different law. It has to be something unique, which is made by the author. No html code, javascript and such are considered unique. What he/she writes on the page, might be considered unique and in that case it must be something that the author has written himself; like if I wrote my life story it would be considered unique. If I wrote a html guide, which there are 1000s of on the net, probabilities would be that it would not be considered unique.

So reendereing the code on a webpage, before it hits my browser, will never be seen as a felony or anything. What I wish to see is my own business.

Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: TEggHead on August 16, 2002, 11:36:35 AM
quote:

Well, here the word Copyright is meaningless. We do not have either the word nor any law called this. Allthough many Scandinavian sites puts this word at the bottom of their webpages, it is totally meaningless.


Well, not entirily, although Scandanavian Copyright laws do in general allow you to copy much more than Americans are accustomed to, especially in non-profit situations, they do have copyright laws.

Norway has the Kopinor Association, in Finland some sites already had to close down because they re-distruted Scientology material without prior permission and
the guy orriginally spreading the stuf lived in Sweden and is still battling with Scientology over this. Danmark copyright laws do not even allow fair-use copying. These are only a few of the referencese to Scandanavian Copyright laws I found, but you get the drift...

Disclaimer. I am absolutley not associated with Scientology (or any other religion for that matter)

JarC

 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: Arne on August 16, 2002, 11:45:52 AM
Let me repeat myself. We do not have a word that says "Copyright". We do not have a law named "Copyright". If a person writes the word "Copyrighted" on his webside here in Scandinavia, it has no meaning at all.

You refer to KopiNor, which has nothing to do with this. In Norway there is Aandsverksloven which I have refered to the meaning of above.

I hae never said that there is "free for all to copy". You have to read my post more careful. The part about Unique text.

Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: TEggHead on August 16, 2002, 11:47:17 AM
quote:

Well, that's B.S., HTML authors have never had an "exclusive right
to control how their pages are displayed". That's not what HTML
is about. If they want that, they should use PDF or something.


That is true for those aspects pertaining to how it is displayed, but the difference is that it pertains only to layout and not to content

Furthermore there are the capabilities of the used browser to reckon with, not every browser is capable of displaying/rendering eveything that is included in a page's html code.

But by and large the basics are true indeed, you may not have any leg to stand on when debating the layout, but a copyright holder has a very large chance on success when making a claim based on content. Mainly because they are two different aspects of the same thing (look at it as if you would with a book, you can claim copyright on the text of the book, but not on it's appearance, excluding textual and graphical representations)

There is however a counterside to this, if claims based on content ever come to an injunction of some kind than this has far reaching consequences for free-hosted websites. Then they will nolonger be allowed to insert bannerad or usagetracking code embedded within the actual page directly, since that would constitute a change in content, but no doubt banners that get inserted in a separate frame will not be affected/prevented by this since that does not constitute a change in the original content.

JarC



Edited by - TEggHead on 16 Aug 2002  12:58:03
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: Arne on August 16, 2002, 11:55:40 AM
For those who can read Norwegian here is a very good explanation of the Norwegian law about protection. It is written by Professor dr. juris. Olav Torvund

http://www.torvund.net/artikler/art-opphav.asp


Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: TEggHead on August 16, 2002, 12:01:40 PM
quote:

Let me repeat myself. We do not have a word that says "Copyright".


Sheesh you mean language wise speaking...ok, but the idea/notion of intellectual ownership itself does exist, and I thought you meant that, my mistake...

JarC


 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: Arne on August 16, 2002, 12:06:21 PM
Sorry for not being clear on that. You see, there is a very great misunderstandig among Scandinavian people, specially Norwegians, who believe they are under protection by US law. That is why they write Copyrighted on their native websites Some even think they are under FBI jurisdiction LOL. I guess some people watch too much television.

But apart form that, there is no law and most certainly will never come a law that tries to force me to see a webpage in a special manner or probits me from filtereing whatever I wish to filter. I don't even have to read the sport section in the newspaper (thank God)

Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: TEggHead on August 16, 2002, 12:42:05 PM
quote:
http://www.torvund.net/artikler/art-opphav.asp


Haha, he's got a good point in paragraph 9 , how else are you going to install a program if copying is not allowed and installing constitutes making a copy...

 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: Arne on August 16, 2002, 12:55:03 PM
So the next suggestion might be 2 years in jail for reading my computer's cache

In Denmark, though, it is forbidden to deep link. This is fairly new and only about a couple of months old.
Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: Jor on August 16, 2002, 05:08:01 PM
quote:

In Denmark, though, it is forbidden to deep link. This is fairly new and only about a couple of months old.


Yes, I heard... talk about insane laws.
What's next, four months jail if you repeat what someone else said?

 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: Jor on August 16, 2002, 05:08:05 PM
quote:

In Denmark, though, it is forbidden to deep link. This is fairly new and only about a couple of months old.


Yes, I heard... talk about insane laws.
What's next, four months jail if you repeat what someone else said?

 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: hpguru on August 16, 2002, 06:52:35 PM
quote:
Some even think they are under FBI jurisdiction LOL. I guess some people watch too much television.


True but keep in mind that the FBI is busily arresting people all over the world these days. Their concept of jurisdiction is rather distorted, don't you think? I'm not saying that's right and I personally hate the "Father Knows Best" attitude of many Americans and American institutions that presume the citizens of other countries should be subject to our standards, customs, laws and legal systems. There may be many countries who refuse to bend to our corporate will but then our leaders will just seek out other ways and means to "put the screws to them".

Facing each other,
a thousand miles apart.

Edited by - hpguru on 17 Aug 2002  02:31:33
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: Arne on August 17, 2002, 12:52:39 AM
Yes, USA got pretty annoyed when EU and Norway seems not to sign the "agreement" about not trialing US militaries for war crimes. It was sort of more in balance during the cold war, although it was far beyond logic that we were supposed to see Sovjet as an enemy in spite of they had done nothing but help us durin WW2. We all knew it was just a circus to keep it in balance. Now ppl all over the world are having trouble accepting US interfering in all sorts of things. It has sort of gotten out of hand and is too much.

I see a new balance coming, slowly, but still building up. I guess this is the reason for so much unneeded engagement on this side of the big pond. Probably to neutralize the new superpower building up over here, which might be much bigger that poor old Sovjet.

It has not come so far yet, but I still seem to see signs on this thing growing and that US is figting back already now at this extreemly early stage. MY unquilified guess is that in a 100 years from now, we will have a new West, East and the terrorist block, where the new East will be Europe + the old Sovjet.

My qualified guess is that there will never be peace. Too much money is involved. Then we will have a new cold war where people don't understand why they should see some countries as enemies, until those alliances  cracks up again LOL.

Only difficult thing these days is the internet. People have to easy access to each other across borders. We are not as easily fooled as we were back then. Those of us who wish to know what is really going on, have the possibility to check for ourselves about most of the things. And it will for sure be difficult for them when so many people have so many friends across both borders and big ponds Maybe one day the power of the people will see a victory, it is not totally impossible. We just have to teach the people that almost every country manipulates and brainwashes their own citizens. Norway does it, Denmark does it and USA does it. Now I have only counted for the 3 countries I know most about and have lived in myself. One of my hobbies is to read newspapers from many countries and to compare. It is actually a fun hobby once one have learned what to look for.

Now this was som late night babbling from me, since I can't sleep when it is so hot. I better find myself a place to sleep where it is a bit more chilly. Night!!

Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: hpguru on August 17, 2002, 01:29:47 AM
You've got a keen eye my brother.

Facing each other,
a thousand miles apart.
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: Jor on August 17, 2002, 02:49:07 AM
Arne: that political view is very much like mine... think you'll turn out to be right.

After all, the US's unilateralism can only breed a powerful antiresponse.

Just wondering, have you read the recent Reg article 'Damn the Constitution: Europe must take back the Web'? If not, it's here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/26612.html

Some pretty good points made in there.

 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: JakBeNymble on August 20, 2002, 03:17:47 AM
Hi "Friends",

             I don't know Guys, look what You get in jail these days.
(1). Three square meals a day.
(2). Learn a trade, . . . [Making Lic. Plates for automoblies]
(3). Don't pay Any TAXES!
(4). Free Room and Board.
(5). Free cable Tv
(6). Free clothing & Laundry.
(7). No BILLS!
(8). Roof over Your head,. .[Although it's made out of "Stone-Walls & Steel-Bars]
 
HEY!, . . . . .DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE "DSL" or Dial-up in the "Big-House"???!!!

Yes, . .yes, . .I'll stop, . . . . . .When, . . . . . .They Pry My COLD GREY DEAD FINGERS FROM MY "KEY-BOARD"!!!!

"Ball & Chain-Jak"

PS:" The Site I was going to link to was 'kinda NOSEY'& Full of Bugs, So I just copied the page for Your Reading Pleasure"

Article was taken from "FISCAL NOTES" Window on Government.
--------

Computers rescued from scrap heap,
repaired in prison, sent to schools

Taking a Byte Out of Crime

The factory floor is brimming with computer parts. Hard drives, monitors and circuit boards cover workbenches. Electronic equipment, in various stages of assembly, is stacked everywhere.

A personal computer factory with an inventory overload? In a way, yes. This is the scene at the Wynne prison unit of the ***** Department of Criminal Justice (*****) in Huntsville where prisoners refurbish computers as part of a work- training program. The finished computers are delivered to ***** schools.

Since its beginning in October, the Computer Recovery Program has shipped 91 computers to 12 schools. That's just a start. Another 70 schools have asked for 1,107 computers. To meet the demand, officials will add a second shift early this year and may go into production 24 hours a day. The program is to expand to the Gatesville and Coffield prison units this year.

The program, approved by the 1999 Legislature, could help alleviate several critical problems.

One is the question of what to do with obsolete computers. State agencies and universities threw away or stored more than 50,000 computers in 1998, up from 37,481 in 1997. In 1994, the number was 14,045.

Another is the need for computers in ***** classrooms. The demand for the recovery program's products is ample evidence of that. Schools were notified of the program through the mail.

The computer repair and assembly skills inmates receive in the program should help prepare them for employment when they are released from prison. Job studies show that computer technicians are in demand. Other studies show that released inmates with marketable skills are less likely to return to prison.

Legislative OK
The program was authorized in a law written by Sen. Bill Ratliff, based on work done by the ***** Comptroller's office.

"It sounded like a reasonable and very cost-effective proposal if the prisoners could rehabilitate those PCs and put them back in use," Ratliff says. "It gave them a way to be trained on electronics and it is a source of rehabbed computers."

Under the program, ***** Correctional Industries(TCI), the prison system's work-training program, can receive, repair or refurbish and resell the state's surplus or salvaged data processing equipment. That allows state agencies to send everything from personal computers to typewriters to the Wynne Unit.

TCI factories employ more than 6,500 inmates overall, with about 60 working in the Computer Recovery Program.

So far, the program has been overwhelmed by the response from suppliers--state agencies and universities--and customers--the schools, which get first dibs on the computers. State agencies and other political subdivisions in the state are next in line.

Growing problem
By October 1999, the program had received 1,400 desktop computers, 2,000 monitors, 370 printers, 85 typewriters, eight printers from mainframe computers, two mainframe disk drives and two fax machines. That adds up to 50 tons of equipment. By December, the total had reached 125 tons.

Finding a useful place for obsolete computers is a national problem. An estimated 20.6 million computers were deemed obsolete in 1998, according to a study from the National Safety Council, but just 2.3 million computers--11.3 percent- -were recycled. The rest were sent to landfills, stored in warehouses or sold for pennies on the dollar. About a third of the equipment that goes to TDCJ's program is unusable and scrapped.

Mike Vandervort, associate vice president and business manager for the University of ***** at xxxxxxx, has shipped several pallets of computers to TDCJ. "The new TDCJ computer recovery program is a great way to dispose of computers that will eventually end up in public schools," he says.

The Comptroller's office has shipped 326 units to the program (terminals, monitors, printers and hard drives).

Chris O'Dell, the agency's Information Resources Manager, says, "Once Workstation Support removes all sensitive information and software from the computer equipment, all we have to do is put it on pallets and shrink wrap it; TDCJ does the rest."

By December, 13 state agencies and universities had shipped equipment to the program. Agencies sending old equipment include the Comptroller's office, the Attorney General's office, the ***** Workforce Commission, the ***** Department of Public Safety, *** ******* State University, the ***** Board of Architectural Examiners and the ***** Water Development Board.

Inmate training
While the program extends the life of computers, it also provides training for inmates. Candidates for the program must have good disciplinary records, participate in vocational classes through the TDCJ's Windham School District and express a desire to acquire vocational skills. Participants are usually two to five years from release. They become certified computer technicians after completing the program.

Using existing TDCJ funds and revenue from scrap sales, the initial capital outlay plus staff costs was about $400,000 for the first year of the program. Lawmakers provided no additional money to TCI for the project.

TDCJ will track the program's workers after their release.

Like any computer maker, recovery program officials want to satisfy their customers. So far, they have.

The first computers went to schools in the Huntsville Independent School District. Katherine M. Young, a pre-school teacher at *** ******** Elementary, wrote to the program after getting the PCs:
"The children were very excited about receiving [the refurbished computers]. Words could never express how grateful we are to you and everyone that prepared them for our use. They will be a very valuable asset in our classroom. Thank you very, very much!"

Contributing to this article:
David Dennis and Mike Hay



Edited by - JakBeNymble on 20 Aug 2002  04:34:00
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: geekster on August 25, 2002, 01:00:25 PM
quote:


yes, i'm interfering with web publishers' exclusive right to control how their page are displayed, but web publishers are interfering with my private life and my right to control what content i'm expecting to view on a web page.

altosax.
 



This brings to mind the controversy about the legality of EULAs.  Do software vendors have the right to dictate how you can use YOUR software that you paid money for?  I don't deny that their code is copyrighted, but with any other consumer product in the USA, once you pay money for something, it's yours to do with as you please....except for software?!?  What gives?  And to add insult to injury, if their software causes damage to your system (data loss, etc.) they whine that they can't be held accountable, even if it can be proven that their software is a piece of doo-doo and poorly written.  Check out this SOFTWARE VENDORS LICENSE AGREEMENT (SVLA) that someone came up with in response to EULAs at Counterexploitation.org: <http://cexx.org/svla.htm>.

Maybe people should start bringing suit to these "anal cavities" about how their sites are in poor taste and it is against your religion to be forced to view them, or something like that.  May sound silly, but no more silly than the whining they do to get their way.

Please forgive some of the strong words I've tried to water down, but it's issues like these that starts my blood boiling.

Sincerely,

>>>>>>> tHe gEEksetR

--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: altosax on August 25, 2002, 01:51:59 PM
geekster wrote:

quote:

This brings to mind the controversy about the legality of EULAs. ... I don't deny that their code is copyrighted, ...



hi geekster,
this thread would require a long discussion, but to make it short: "i don't agree with copyright at all".

have you ever seen, say, a mathematician that have copyrighted his theorems? is this a product of their brain or not? if the pitagoras or euclide's theorems was copyrighted probably the geometry would have been blocked for hundreds of years.

but the same now. if a surgeon had copyrighted his way to operate how many people would died? do the copyright owners think this when they need a surgeon?

i've paid for my television and when it will not be functioning anymore i'll call the assistance or repair it myself if i'll able to do this. and this seems normal to all because the tv is mine now. but could seem normal an end user license that establishes if i have to watch it on the chair or from the bed?

and when i pay for the software i like, why i can not solve myself the problems? why a pornographic banner should appear on sites that nothing have to do with pornography? where are my right then? why other have their rights and i haven't?

i hadn't a so radical position in the past, but this is what i think now,
regards,
altosax.


 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: hpguru on August 25, 2002, 02:34:35 PM
quote:

i hadn't a so radical position in the past, but this is what i think now,
regards,
altosax.


 



I think it is a logical rather than a radical position. Information cannot be owned and it seems that the most natural thing to do is for humans to share it.

Facing each other,
a thousand miles apart.
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: geekster on August 25, 2002, 04:00:19 PM
quote:


i've paid for my television and when it will not be functioning anymore i'll call the assistance or repair it myself if i'll able to do this. and this seems normal to all because the tv is mine now. but could seem normal an end user license that establishes if i have to watch it on the chair or from the bed?...

regards,
altosax.




That is the essence and spirit behind the SVLA at <http://cexx.org/svla.htm>.  The whole idea is to show how ridiculous EULAs are and a way to respond to such idiocy.

I don't like copyrights either.  But I acknowledge that they exist.  It's a mechanism that tries to moderate human greediness and selfishness.  You don't have to like it, you just have to deal with it.  It's here now and it's not going to go away, unless mankind suddenly grew up and truly became brothers in spirit, with a sense of sharing and giving and loving.  Life is difficult, unfair,  and full of obstacles.  That is a sad truth.  So all there's left to do is to accept that fact and deal with it.

And the question is, how to deal with it.  The best way I found is to act, not react.  What works for me is that for every complaint I have, offer a solution with it.  People will listen more and maybe even discuss it more if a solution is offered.  My approach is to establish some kind of respect.  I don't have to agree with everyones ideas, but I try to establish and show respect.  Once respect is established, trust begins to follow, even if there is disagreement.

I fully agree with you that it's absurd and ridiculous. So tell me, what do you propose can be done to slow down or even stop such absurdity?  I'm sure you have somes ideas.  I'd love to hear them.

--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: altosax on August 25, 2002, 04:02:37 PM
quote:

Information cannot be owned and it seems that the most natural thing to do is for humans to share it.



this is the reason the main algorithm are realized in the most known universities and distributed as public domain. so why a coder using those algorithms for his programs should be able to impose this kind of license?

altosax.

 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: geekster on August 25, 2002, 05:09:29 PM
quote:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Information cannot be owned and it seems that the most natural thing to do is for humans to share it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


this is the reason the main algorithm are realized in the most known universities and distributed as public domain. so why a coder using those algorithms for his programs should be able to impose this kind of license?

altosax.




The idea behind copyright laws is to stop others from making money off of your ideas without your knowledge.  There is nothing that says you can't allow someone to make money off of your particular copyrighted material, whether it's a program code, a novel, a movie, etc.  Take a look at the open source programs.  Even though the code is all out in the open, it's still copyrighted.  The difference is that there is a sharing spirit underlying it all.  Most of them freely share and allow their code to be used as long as it's out in the open, and not behind anyone's back.  It's being sneaky and underhanded that's objectionable, human nature being what it is.  Copyrights don't have to be restrictive.  It's mainly there to put a stop to the ones being devious and underhanded, claiming credit for someone else's work.

And anything that is designated as public domain helps put a stop to anyone trying to be devious.  Which is the whole point of it all.

But back to the original thread about copyright law, those that try to use copyright laws for their own selfish gain are trying to twist the spirit of the law.  The age old conflict of good vs. evil : overcoming manipulation and deception.  Copyright law by itself isn't good or bad, just how it's used makes it good or bad.

Sincerely,

>>>>>>> tHe gEEksteR



--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: altosax on August 25, 2002, 05:43:20 PM
this thread was not on the copyright question, but now that we have started, let's continue :)

quote:

Copyright law by itself isn't good or bad, just how it's used makes it good or bad.



no. i think that copyright is bad, because it delay the progress. all we could live better if all knowledge was free and available. have you heard of cars not polluting? and of mobile phones not causing cancer due to their radiations? they are all patented, so they are protected and no one can produce them. and we all have to live with pollution, cancer and all other diseases.

quote:

Take a look at the open source programs.  Even though the code is all out in the open, it's still copyrighted.



yes, they are copyrighted. but if all can copyright their code why open source code will not? but you can read open source code, then show me your code to ensure that you haven't used what copyrighted by me!

<edit>: if a confirm was needed read what happens to xvid codec. the link is http://xvid.org/

quote:

The idea behind copyright laws is to stop others from making money off of your ideas without your knowledge.



money. is this all we need? to follow it we are destroying the planet. do you know that the most important multinationals of food have patented some rice species in the east asia? the people that was using those colture in their territory now have to buy the rice from the multinational. and they have to buy it each year because the seeds are unfruitful. but the worst is that they have been made sterile with a genetical manipulation, just to patent them.

and so on with thousands of other examples.

altosax.

Edited by - altosax on 26 Aug 2002  01:03:14
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: altosax on August 25, 2002, 05:49:32 PM
short faq

q: are you a communist?
a: yes.

altosax.

 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: geekster on August 25, 2002, 07:08:07 PM
Okay altosax,

You believe that copyright laws themsevles are bad; I believe that it's the intent and how copyright laws are used that makes it good or bad.  I'm not trying to say whether you are right or wrong in your belief.  I will respect your beliefs, just give me the same courtesy.

I agree with you that things could be done differently, with more caring for each other.  But I'm asking you, how can you make others listen without the anger and hate.  There is already too much anger and hate in the world.  Why add to it?  No single solution is perfect.  This is not a perfect world.  So what you you do to help make things better?

I've heard of the abuses that patent and copyright laws are used for.  I could add to the things you mentioned that I've heard about.  So help me out.  Earlier, I mentioned suing the web developers that are crying about "protecting their rights" by saying that it's against my religion to be forced to view them as they see fit.  A court action is the only thing I can think of offhand that THESE people understand.  If you can come up with something better, I'm all ears.

You don't need to convince me about all the bad things copyright and patent laws are used for to oppress others.  I'm just saying that copyright laws are only a tool that's being used.  Like the knife - by itself it is neither good nor bad, but how it's used is what makes it good or bad.  Knives are used for cooking.  Is the knife still bad?  It is also used to take life.  It's the person using the knife who is good or bad.  It's the person manipulating copyright laws who is good or bad.  That is all I'm trying to say.  And right now we are stuck with these laws, for good or bad.  So let's work together and find a way to put a stop to such abuses.  I believe thtt by working together, we CAN make a difference.

Sincerely,

>>>>>>> tHe gEEksteR

--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: altosax on August 25, 2002, 08:36:36 PM
i know geekster, my friend, this is not a perfect world.
but it is the only we have and it is running towards the hell, this is the problem.

quote:

So what you you do to help make things better?



i'm trying to live according my belief and my conscience. i know laws (some of them very well) but i don't care much of them because my way of life is more correct of what the laws can impose to me.

i haven't solution to problems, i only have problems, sorry. in the election day i give my vote to the people i want to be represented and this is all.

altosax.

 
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: geekster on August 25, 2002, 10:24:51 PM
quote:


i'm trying to live according my belief and my conscience. i know laws (some of them very well) but i don't care much of them because my way of life is more correct of what the laws can impose to me.




If only the ones who counted believed like you do, maybe we would have even a slightly better world to live in.

And I believe you are a fighter, my fiery Italian friend.  I must confess that I was trying to turn that fiery temperement into a force that is to be reckoned with, like the single snowball rolling downhill and gaining size and momentum until it becomes a huge force to be reckoned with.  In this short time I've gotten to know you, I find it hard to believe that you would just sit aside and not be moved by the events in the world.

I greatly respect you for your beliefs because you are willing to stand up and fight for them.  You may not have any ideas at the moment, but you might in the future.  So, do not give up and do not back down.  Just remember to play it smart and use their own tactics against the oppressors.  It is the same principle used in the Japanese martial art, Aikido - using the opponents own strength and momentum against them.

I was making a suggestion of using those very same copyright laws against them. Let's keep in touch and maybe togehter we will find a way to turn the tables on the oppressors.

Your friend in spirit,

>>>>>>>> tHe gEEksteR

--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War
Title: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law
Post by: altosax on August 25, 2002, 11:37:41 PM
quote:

Just remember to play it smart



i've always played smart, and sometimes hard.
but this was years ago, now i'm undeceived and tired.

altosax.