Author Topic: Always Remote Proxy?  (Read 2970 times)

moulder

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • ICQ Messenger -
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« on: June 06, 2002, 03:46:02 AM »
Hello,

I know my question is OT, but I was reading here several times:
"Never go out without a proxy"
Is it really that dangerous to connect directly?

TIA,
moulder


 
 

Arne

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 778
    • ICQ Messenger - 1448105
    • AOL Instant Messenger - aflaaten
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - arneflaa
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2002, 05:37:03 AM »
Hi and welcome.

No it is not. Using a proxy almost always slow things down a bit, and I only use one if I don't wish to show my real IP for some reason on some site. (We are now speaking of external proxies.)


Best wishes
Arne
Imici username: Arne
Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne

JakBeNymble

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 308
    • ICQ Messenger -
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2002, 06:54:24 AM »
Hi "Moulder",
            Sorry,. . . I didn't mean for the comment to be frightening. I was making what probably was a "feeble attempt" at humor. It was a play on words. Like a concerned parent would say, "Now it's raining, don't go out without Your Coat on"! That's what I was meaning. Again, I apologize for this mis-understanding.
Have a Great & Wonderful Day,
"not-so-funny-jak"

 
 

dave1006

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
    • ICQ Messenger - 92066376
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2002, 12:15:51 PM »
hi moulder,

just a few points about proxies:

* only 'anonymous' proxies help to hide your identity by hiding your IP. Most proxies infact pass your IP along with the HTTP_HEADER info and are therefor pretty useless, unless you like their cache (if a chache proxy).
* proxies usually slow things down: if the proxy has no cache or if the cache does not have regular requests for the pages you wish to visit, surfing speeds will be slower via proxy than direct connect.
* some unscrupulous proxy admin may well monitor data throughput and look for passwords and other personal info etc.
* as i understand it, some new EU law (im not sure about other countries around the world im afriad) requires server admin to keep large and detailed logs about the service they provide now, and these logs must be handed over to the relevent authorities on request - i imagine this also includes proxy use.
* usually an x-forwarded-for: HTTP_HEADER is as effective an IP 'spoof' as a proxy, and comes without the negatives of proxy use.

-------------------------
|David Gallagher        
|dave at smokeajay.co.uk
-------------------------
dave
dave at smokeajay.co.uk

dave1006

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
    • ICQ Messenger - 92066376
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2002, 12:18:37 PM »
Just thought i'd add that the above post is about external proxies, and the comment  
quote:
Never go out without a proxy
does, imho, apply to Proxomitron (which is altogether a different proxy to your 'average' proxy).

-------------------------
|David Gallagher        
|dave at smokeajay.co.uk
-------------------------
dave
dave at smokeajay.co.uk

moulder

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • ICQ Messenger -
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2002, 01:14:59 PM »
Arne: That's what I use to do as well, thanks :)

JakBeNymble: Sorry, I didn't understand the joke within (or that you maybe meant Proxomitron).

dave1006: I didn't clearly mention it, but I had external anonymous proxies in mind.
Interesting idea to use X-Forwarded-For Spoofing. I found the threads in the forum on this.
BTW, don't you get trouble with your ISP if you do so?

Thanks again for the response,
moulder


 
 

dave1006

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
    • ICQ Messenger - 92066376
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2002, 02:26:19 PM »
quote:
BTW, don't you get trouble with your ISP if you do so?


I don't know - to be honest i can't see any reason for them not liking this, i don't see how it affects them. My ISP has a 'forced' cache server im automatically routed through for HTTP browsing, which i was unaware of when i signed up; so im sure a spoofed 'x-forwarded-for' won't upset them too much.

Again on the external proxy front, i am always wary of so called 'free' anonymous proxies - some im sure are perfectly legit, but others im not so sure about...

For instance, i could set up an anonymous proxy on my machine and advertise it on a few proxy lists. Within no time at all i'd have a whole lot of users, most of whom are probably concerned about security, and most of whom will be using this 'anonymous' proxy for delicate matters, ie sites/forums where password/personal details are used and transfered. I could very easily log all of the traffic, and the only protection users would have would be encryption, which is *never* 100% secure. (And often not used at all)

Just my 2cents.

-------------------------
|David Gallagher        
|dave at smokeajay.co.uk
-------------------------
dave
dave at smokeajay.co.uk

JakBeNymble

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 308
    • ICQ Messenger -
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2002, 05:29:06 PM »
Hi "Friends",
            Welcome to the FORUM "Moulder"! Glad that You are here!
Please forgive me for not welcoming You in the earlier Post.
Everybody on the FORUM that knows me, Know that I'm just a "big Cut-up"and so they don't pay to much attention to some of the comments that I make. I guess that take into consideration, know how hard it is for me to Type the key-board with "My Nose", since my hands are pre-occupied with the "straight-Jacket" the orderlies here in the Sanitarium were so kind to give me! And for FREE, too! LOL!

I still have trouble with getting that 'Ctrl+Alt+Delete' thing to work for me, since I have to be really fast to do it! They know when I've been using the community machine here in the Ward, because it's slow and I have to hit enter so many times that the word "Enter" is imprinted backwards on the end of My Nose which is almost calloused and very Flat now! But it goes away after about an hour or two! LOL!

I kinda like it that way though. When people think that Your "Noggin" is alittle more than "Cracked" on one side, it gives You such a wide margin for Behavior! LOL!

Well You take Care, My Good Friend and Keep in touch!
So from the Psych-Ward, "Telneted from the Sea of Tranquility" and bouncing off a Martian-Mirror on "Phobos", [You all Have the Best day Ever!]
"Punch-Drunk-jak"
--------
"REALITY, . . What a CONCEPT!"-Mork


Ps: Dear "Moulder",
                 If You have some concerns about using the 'Spoofers', You might want to check out this post: http://asp.flaaten.dk/pforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=144 It will encode Your Data before it goes through Your ISP.

"[Browser+Proxo+(J.A.P)]->->encoded data->->Your ISP->->ENCRYPTING PROXY SERVERS->->->->Destination Site"

Let Me Know If I Can Help in Any way!
Best Wishes,
'jak'

 







Edited by - JakBeNymble on 07 Jun 2002  02:14:09
 

moulder

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • ICQ Messenger -
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2002, 02:15:27 AM »
Hello JakBeNymble,

I have read your post about JAP.
However, the great thing with X-Forwarded-For/Client-IP Spoofing would be:
Appearing in the server logs with a different IP without taking the disadvantage of an external proxy slowdown.

Regards,
moulder

 
 

Scott Lemmon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • ICQ Messenger -
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • http://proxomitron.cjb.net/
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2002, 02:50:59 AM »
Something to consider - it's rare for a web server to log all headers.  The default log format usually looks like so...

127.0.0.1 - frank [10/Oct/2000:13:55:36 -0700] "GET /apache_pb.gif HTTP/1.0" 200 2326 "http://www.example.com/start.html" "Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win98; I ;Nav)"  

They usually only include the User-Agent, Referrer, Remote-IP, Time/Date, Size of page, and retrun code.  Headers like X-Forwarded-For can be logged, but my guess is 90%+ of the web servers out there just use the default format. One reason is it's the format most log analysis tools are designed to work with.

 

dave1006

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
    • ICQ Messenger - 92066376
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2002, 11:26:55 AM »
That is true, however 'active' content on *most* pages who know what they are doing will use an x-forwarded-for: header as the ip address.

As for logging, i'd argue that the 10% who log more headers are the 10% really interested in your stats for reasons other than harmless 'webmaster interest'.

It seems from all the posts here, the best option is to use a 'trusted' cache/proxy server (one provided by your isp for optimum speed and security, as they will be able to log all your data transfer anyway) and the x-forwarded-for: http header. That way, 'basic' or common logging syntax records the remote-ip from the proxy, and the more 'advanced' logging may also record the x-forwarded-for: header, probably ignoring the 'real' ip as simply a proxy server. (This is my current setup, and i don't know of any sites who report my 'correct' IP these days; unless in a list of 'possibilities)

Hope this is correct and makes sense!

-------------------------
|David Gallagher        
|dave at smokeajay.co.uk
-------------------------
dave
dave at smokeajay.co.uk

JakBeNymble

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 308
    • ICQ Messenger -
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2002, 05:53:56 PM »
Hi "Proxo-Users",
                I understand "Moulder". I like speed too. And Running through a Proxy can definitely slow down surfing, especially if You use one that has a Remote location. I'm glad that You like the "spoofers". I had a "ball" just putting the thing together. I hope that the Members have a "ball" using them. If J.A.P. would run just alittle bit faster I would run it all the time. I like that program. Not only does it give 'Destination Protection', but also 'Corridor Protection' as well. I think what makes it run slow for me, in not only the location, but the way it "chops" Your data stream into segments. I know that's part of the "double-blind" so their Proxies (Mixes) doesn't know which request belongs to who and so the User is protected from the Mixes as well.

Using the 'Spoofers' will send fake Info to the site, but Your Actual Ip and Host_name will be logged as the "Proxy" forwarding the "fake Client's" request. If You wanted to, You could make a "Set Proxy" Filter and make it call to a list of sites that You wanted to use a Proxy for the connection. That way you would normally be surfing without a proxy for speed's sake, but when You surf to a site that You need a Remote Proxy for, Proxo would automatically use a Remote Proxy for the Connection.

Here is where I posted the "Set Proxy" Filter.http://asp.flaaten.dk/pforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=567
VERY IMPORTANT!
The Proxy that You Use in the Replacement Text of the "SET-PROXY" Filter, MUST be in Proxo's List of Remote Proxies, or the Connection Will be made WITHOUT the Proxy. Not Very "COOL"!


If I can help, just let me know.
I hope that You have a Wonderful & Blessed Day, My FRIENDS!
'jak'

 
 

JakBeNymble

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 308
    • ICQ Messenger -
    • AOL Instant Messenger -
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger -
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Always Remote Proxy?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2002, 01:20:44 AM »
Hi "Proxo-Friends",
                   You know "Dave1006", that's Using Your Head! (For something other than to hang Your hat on!) GOOD THINKING! In Fact I think I'll give a call to My ISP and get the Stats & Numbers from them.
'jak'
--------
"Captain, . . . It's very difficult to make Logic Circuits from stone knives and Forks"-Mr.Spock