Author Topic: Disable web graphics, violate copyright law  (Read 6873 times)

hpguru

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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2002, 06:52:35 PM »
quote:
Some even think they are under FBI jurisdiction LOL. I guess some people watch too much television.


True but keep in mind that the FBI is busily arresting people all over the world these days. Their concept of jurisdiction is rather distorted, don't you think? I'm not saying that's right and I personally hate the "Father Knows Best" attitude of many Americans and American institutions that presume the citizens of other countries should be subject to our standards, customs, laws and legal systems. There may be many countries who refuse to bend to our corporate will but then our leaders will just seek out other ways and means to "put the screws to them".

Facing each other,
a thousand miles apart.

Edited by - hpguru on 17 Aug 2002  02:31:33
Facing each other,
a thousand miles apart.

Arne

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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2002, 12:52:39 AM »
Yes, USA got pretty annoyed when EU and Norway seems not to sign the "agreement" about not trialing US militaries for war crimes. It was sort of more in balance during the cold war, although it was far beyond logic that we were supposed to see Sovjet as an enemy in spite of they had done nothing but help us durin WW2. We all knew it was just a circus to keep it in balance. Now ppl all over the world are having trouble accepting US interfering in all sorts of things. It has sort of gotten out of hand and is too much.

I see a new balance coming, slowly, but still building up. I guess this is the reason for so much unneeded engagement on this side of the big pond. Probably to neutralize the new superpower building up over here, which might be much bigger that poor old Sovjet.

It has not come so far yet, but I still seem to see signs on this thing growing and that US is figting back already now at this extreemly early stage. MY unquilified guess is that in a 100 years from now, we will have a new West, East and the terrorist block, where the new East will be Europe + the old Sovjet.

My qualified guess is that there will never be peace. Too much money is involved. Then we will have a new cold war where people don't understand why they should see some countries as enemies, until those alliances  cracks up again LOL.

Only difficult thing these days is the internet. People have to easy access to each other across borders. We are not as easily fooled as we were back then. Those of us who wish to know what is really going on, have the possibility to check for ourselves about most of the things. And it will for sure be difficult for them when so many people have so many friends across both borders and big ponds Maybe one day the power of the people will see a victory, it is not totally impossible. We just have to teach the people that almost every country manipulates and brainwashes their own citizens. Norway does it, Denmark does it and USA does it. Now I have only counted for the 3 countries I know most about and have lived in myself. One of my hobbies is to read newspapers from many countries and to compare. It is actually a fun hobby once one have learned what to look for.

Now this was som late night babbling from me, since I can't sleep when it is so hot. I better find myself a place to sleep where it is a bit more chilly. Night!!

Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne
Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne

hpguru

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« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2002, 01:29:47 AM »
You've got a keen eye my brother.

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Facing each other,
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Jor

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« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2002, 02:49:07 AM »
Arne: that political view is very much like mine... think you'll turn out to be right.

After all, the US's unilateralism can only breed a powerful antiresponse.

Just wondering, have you read the recent Reg article 'Damn the Constitution: Europe must take back the Web'? If not, it's here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/26612.html

Some pretty good points made in there.

 
 

JakBeNymble

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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2002, 03:17:47 AM »
Hi "Friends",

             I don't know Guys, look what You get in jail these days.
(1). Three square meals a day.
(2). Learn a trade, . . . [Making Lic. Plates for automoblies]
(3). Don't pay Any TAXES!
(4). Free Room and Board.
(5). Free cable Tv
(6). Free clothing & Laundry.
(7). No BILLS!
(8). Roof over Your head,. .[Although it's made out of "Stone-Walls & Steel-Bars]
 
HEY!, . . . . .DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE "DSL" or Dial-up in the "Big-House"???!!!

Yes, . .yes, . .I'll stop, . . . . . .When, . . . . . .They Pry My COLD GREY DEAD FINGERS FROM MY "KEY-BOARD"!!!!

"Ball & Chain-Jak"

PS:" The Site I was going to link to was 'kinda NOSEY'& Full of Bugs, So I just copied the page for Your Reading Pleasure"

Article was taken from "FISCAL NOTES" Window on Government.
--------

Computers rescued from scrap heap,
repaired in prison, sent to schools

Taking a Byte Out of Crime

The factory floor is brimming with computer parts. Hard drives, monitors and circuit boards cover workbenches. Electronic equipment, in various stages of assembly, is stacked everywhere.

A personal computer factory with an inventory overload? In a way, yes. This is the scene at the Wynne prison unit of the ***** Department of Criminal Justice (*****) in Huntsville where prisoners refurbish computers as part of a work- training program. The finished computers are delivered to ***** schools.

Since its beginning in October, the Computer Recovery Program has shipped 91 computers to 12 schools. That's just a start. Another 70 schools have asked for 1,107 computers. To meet the demand, officials will add a second shift early this year and may go into production 24 hours a day. The program is to expand to the Gatesville and Coffield prison units this year.

The program, approved by the 1999 Legislature, could help alleviate several critical problems.

One is the question of what to do with obsolete computers. State agencies and universities threw away or stored more than 50,000 computers in 1998, up from 37,481 in 1997. In 1994, the number was 14,045.

Another is the need for computers in ***** classrooms. The demand for the recovery program's products is ample evidence of that. Schools were notified of the program through the mail.

The computer repair and assembly skills inmates receive in the program should help prepare them for employment when they are released from prison. Job studies show that computer technicians are in demand. Other studies show that released inmates with marketable skills are less likely to return to prison.

Legislative OK
The program was authorized in a law written by Sen. Bill Ratliff, based on work done by the ***** Comptroller's office.

"It sounded like a reasonable and very cost-effective proposal if the prisoners could rehabilitate those PCs and put them back in use," Ratliff says. "It gave them a way to be trained on electronics and it is a source of rehabbed computers."

Under the program, ***** Correctional Industries(TCI), the prison system's work-training program, can receive, repair or refurbish and resell the state's surplus or salvaged data processing equipment. That allows state agencies to send everything from personal computers to typewriters to the Wynne Unit.

TCI factories employ more than 6,500 inmates overall, with about 60 working in the Computer Recovery Program.

So far, the program has been overwhelmed by the response from suppliers--state agencies and universities--and customers--the schools, which get first dibs on the computers. State agencies and other political subdivisions in the state are next in line.

Growing problem
By October 1999, the program had received 1,400 desktop computers, 2,000 monitors, 370 printers, 85 typewriters, eight printers from mainframe computers, two mainframe disk drives and two fax machines. That adds up to 50 tons of equipment. By December, the total had reached 125 tons.

Finding a useful place for obsolete computers is a national problem. An estimated 20.6 million computers were deemed obsolete in 1998, according to a study from the National Safety Council, but just 2.3 million computers--11.3 percent- -were recycled. The rest were sent to landfills, stored in warehouses or sold for pennies on the dollar. About a third of the equipment that goes to TDCJ's program is unusable and scrapped.

Mike Vandervort, associate vice president and business manager for the University of ***** at xxxxxxx, has shipped several pallets of computers to TDCJ. "The new TDCJ computer recovery program is a great way to dispose of computers that will eventually end up in public schools," he says.

The Comptroller's office has shipped 326 units to the program (terminals, monitors, printers and hard drives).

Chris O'Dell, the agency's Information Resources Manager, says, "Once Workstation Support removes all sensitive information and software from the computer equipment, all we have to do is put it on pallets and shrink wrap it; TDCJ does the rest."

By December, 13 state agencies and universities had shipped equipment to the program. Agencies sending old equipment include the Comptroller's office, the Attorney General's office, the ***** Workforce Commission, the ***** Department of Public Safety, *** ******* State University, the ***** Board of Architectural Examiners and the ***** Water Development Board.

Inmate training
While the program extends the life of computers, it also provides training for inmates. Candidates for the program must have good disciplinary records, participate in vocational classes through the TDCJ's Windham School District and express a desire to acquire vocational skills. Participants are usually two to five years from release. They become certified computer technicians after completing the program.

Using existing TDCJ funds and revenue from scrap sales, the initial capital outlay plus staff costs was about $400,000 for the first year of the program. Lawmakers provided no additional money to TCI for the project.

TDCJ will track the program's workers after their release.

Like any computer maker, recovery program officials want to satisfy their customers. So far, they have.

The first computers went to schools in the Huntsville Independent School District. Katherine M. Young, a pre-school teacher at *** ******** Elementary, wrote to the program after getting the PCs:
"The children were very excited about receiving [the refurbished computers]. Words could never express how grateful we are to you and everyone that prepared them for our use. They will be a very valuable asset in our classroom. Thank you very, very much!"

Contributing to this article:
David Dennis and Mike Hay



Edited by - JakBeNymble on 20 Aug 2002  04:34:00
 

geekster

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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2002, 01:00:25 PM »
quote:


yes, i'm interfering with web publishers' exclusive right to control how their page are displayed, but web publishers are interfering with my private life and my right to control what content i'm expecting to view on a web page.

altosax.
 



This brings to mind the controversy about the legality of EULAs.  Do software vendors have the right to dictate how you can use YOUR software that you paid money for?  I don't deny that their code is copyrighted, but with any other consumer product in the USA, once you pay money for something, it's yours to do with as you please....except for software?!?  What gives?  And to add insult to injury, if their software causes damage to your system (data loss, etc.) they whine that they can't be held accountable, even if it can be proven that their software is a piece of doo-doo and poorly written.  Check out this SOFTWARE VENDORS LICENSE AGREEMENT (SVLA) that someone came up with in response to EULAs at Counterexploitation.org: <http://cexx.org/svla.htm>.

Maybe people should start bringing suit to these "anal cavities" about how their sites are in poor taste and it is against your religion to be forced to view them, or something like that.  May sound silly, but no more silly than the whining they do to get their way.

Please forgive some of the strong words I've tried to water down, but it's issues like these that starts my blood boiling.

Sincerely,

>>>>>>> tHe gEEksetR

--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War
--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War

altosax

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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2002, 01:51:59 PM »
geekster wrote:

quote:

This brings to mind the controversy about the legality of EULAs. ... I don't deny that their code is copyrighted, ...



hi geekster,
this thread would require a long discussion, but to make it short: "i don't agree with copyright at all".

have you ever seen, say, a mathematician that have copyrighted his theorems? is this a product of their brain or not? if the pitagoras or euclide's theorems was copyrighted probably the geometry would have been blocked for hundreds of years.

but the same now. if a surgeon had copyrighted his way to operate how many people would died? do the copyright owners think this when they need a surgeon?

i've paid for my television and when it will not be functioning anymore i'll call the assistance or repair it myself if i'll able to do this. and this seems normal to all because the tv is mine now. but could seem normal an end user license that establishes if i have to watch it on the chair or from the bed?

and when i pay for the software i like, why i can not solve myself the problems? why a pornographic banner should appear on sites that nothing have to do with pornography? where are my right then? why other have their rights and i haven't?

i hadn't a so radical position in the past, but this is what i think now,
regards,
altosax.


 
 

hpguru

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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2002, 02:34:35 PM »
quote:

i hadn't a so radical position in the past, but this is what i think now,
regards,
altosax.


 



I think it is a logical rather than a radical position. Information cannot be owned and it seems that the most natural thing to do is for humans to share it.

Facing each other,
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Facing each other,
a thousand miles apart.

geekster

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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2002, 04:00:19 PM »
quote:


i've paid for my television and when it will not be functioning anymore i'll call the assistance or repair it myself if i'll able to do this. and this seems normal to all because the tv is mine now. but could seem normal an end user license that establishes if i have to watch it on the chair or from the bed?...

regards,
altosax.




That is the essence and spirit behind the SVLA at <http://cexx.org/svla.htm>.  The whole idea is to show how ridiculous EULAs are and a way to respond to such idiocy.

I don't like copyrights either.  But I acknowledge that they exist.  It's a mechanism that tries to moderate human greediness and selfishness.  You don't have to like it, you just have to deal with it.  It's here now and it's not going to go away, unless mankind suddenly grew up and truly became brothers in spirit, with a sense of sharing and giving and loving.  Life is difficult, unfair,  and full of obstacles.  That is a sad truth.  So all there's left to do is to accept that fact and deal with it.

And the question is, how to deal with it.  The best way I found is to act, not react.  What works for me is that for every complaint I have, offer a solution with it.  People will listen more and maybe even discuss it more if a solution is offered.  My approach is to establish some kind of respect.  I don't have to agree with everyones ideas, but I try to establish and show respect.  Once respect is established, trust begins to follow, even if there is disagreement.

I fully agree with you that it's absurd and ridiculous. So tell me, what do you propose can be done to slow down or even stop such absurdity?  I'm sure you have somes ideas.  I'd love to hear them.

--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War
--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War

altosax

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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2002, 04:02:37 PM »
quote:

Information cannot be owned and it seems that the most natural thing to do is for humans to share it.



this is the reason the main algorithm are realized in the most known universities and distributed as public domain. so why a coder using those algorithms for his programs should be able to impose this kind of license?

altosax.

 
 

geekster

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« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2002, 05:09:29 PM »
quote:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Information cannot be owned and it seems that the most natural thing to do is for humans to share it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


this is the reason the main algorithm are realized in the most known universities and distributed as public domain. so why a coder using those algorithms for his programs should be able to impose this kind of license?

altosax.




The idea behind copyright laws is to stop others from making money off of your ideas without your knowledge.  There is nothing that says you can't allow someone to make money off of your particular copyrighted material, whether it's a program code, a novel, a movie, etc.  Take a look at the open source programs.  Even though the code is all out in the open, it's still copyrighted.  The difference is that there is a sharing spirit underlying it all.  Most of them freely share and allow their code to be used as long as it's out in the open, and not behind anyone's back.  It's being sneaky and underhanded that's objectionable, human nature being what it is.  Copyrights don't have to be restrictive.  It's mainly there to put a stop to the ones being devious and underhanded, claiming credit for someone else's work.

And anything that is designated as public domain helps put a stop to anyone trying to be devious.  Which is the whole point of it all.

But back to the original thread about copyright law, those that try to use copyright laws for their own selfish gain are trying to twist the spirit of the law.  The age old conflict of good vs. evil : overcoming manipulation and deception.  Copyright law by itself isn't good or bad, just how it's used makes it good or bad.

Sincerely,

>>>>>>> tHe gEEksteR



--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War
--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War

altosax

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« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2002, 05:43:20 PM »
this thread was not on the copyright question, but now that we have started, let's continue :)

quote:

Copyright law by itself isn't good or bad, just how it's used makes it good or bad.



no. i think that copyright is bad, because it delay the progress. all we could live better if all knowledge was free and available. have you heard of cars not polluting? and of mobile phones not causing cancer due to their radiations? they are all patented, so they are protected and no one can produce them. and we all have to live with pollution, cancer and all other diseases.

quote:

Take a look at the open source programs.  Even though the code is all out in the open, it's still copyrighted.



yes, they are copyrighted. but if all can copyright their code why open source code will not? but you can read open source code, then show me your code to ensure that you haven't used what copyrighted by me!

<edit>: if a confirm was needed read what happens to xvid codec. the link is http://xvid.org/

quote:

The idea behind copyright laws is to stop others from making money off of your ideas without your knowledge.



money. is this all we need? to follow it we are destroying the planet. do you know that the most important multinationals of food have patented some rice species in the east asia? the people that was using those colture in their territory now have to buy the rice from the multinational. and they have to buy it each year because the seeds are unfruitful. but the worst is that they have been made sterile with a genetical manipulation, just to patent them.

and so on with thousands of other examples.

altosax.

Edited by - altosax on 26 Aug 2002  01:03:14
 

altosax

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« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2002, 05:49:32 PM »
short faq

q: are you a communist?
a: yes.

altosax.

 
 

geekster

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« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2002, 07:08:07 PM »
Okay altosax,

You believe that copyright laws themsevles are bad; I believe that it's the intent and how copyright laws are used that makes it good or bad.  I'm not trying to say whether you are right or wrong in your belief.  I will respect your beliefs, just give me the same courtesy.

I agree with you that things could be done differently, with more caring for each other.  But I'm asking you, how can you make others listen without the anger and hate.  There is already too much anger and hate in the world.  Why add to it?  No single solution is perfect.  This is not a perfect world.  So what you you do to help make things better?

I've heard of the abuses that patent and copyright laws are used for.  I could add to the things you mentioned that I've heard about.  So help me out.  Earlier, I mentioned suing the web developers that are crying about "protecting their rights" by saying that it's against my religion to be forced to view them as they see fit.  A court action is the only thing I can think of offhand that THESE people understand.  If you can come up with something better, I'm all ears.

You don't need to convince me about all the bad things copyright and patent laws are used for to oppress others.  I'm just saying that copyright laws are only a tool that's being used.  Like the knife - by itself it is neither good nor bad, but how it's used is what makes it good or bad.  Knives are used for cooking.  Is the knife still bad?  It is also used to take life.  It's the person using the knife who is good or bad.  It's the person manipulating copyright laws who is good or bad.  That is all I'm trying to say.  And right now we are stuck with these laws, for good or bad.  So let's work together and find a way to put a stop to such abuses.  I believe thtt by working together, we CAN make a difference.

Sincerely,

>>>>>>> tHe gEEksteR

--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War
--------------------
"All warfare is based on deception.
...to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence:
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --The Art of War

altosax

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« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2002, 08:36:36 PM »
i know geekster, my friend, this is not a perfect world.
but it is the only we have and it is running towards the hell, this is the problem.

quote:

So what you you do to help make things better?



i'm trying to live according my belief and my conscience. i know laws (some of them very well) but i don't care much of them because my way of life is more correct of what the laws can impose to me.

i haven't solution to problems, i only have problems, sorry. in the election day i give my vote to the people i want to be represented and this is all.

altosax.