Naoko 4.3

[JD5000]

quote:
Unfortunately many people are using configs that do all kinds of unusual things, and all I can vouch for is the default set.

My config doesn't do anything too unusual.. *evil grin* LoL

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"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein

[Scott Lemmon]

As I've said before BSOD=drivers.  There's nothing I can do to stop them - any random change to the program might make them appear or go away, but the only real fix is to correct the problem in the driver. Add to that the fact that if it doesn't happen on any of the systems I use, there's really nothing I can do to debug it. I don't have a bunch of different development systems to test on, and if it's causing you problems, all I can say is don't use the program.  

Since the page is a JavaScript exploit test, I'd suspect it may be IE causing the BSOD - its has some pretty low-level hooks (all that OS integration).  The new version of Proxomitron uses more HTTP/1.1 features which may expose IE or TCP/IP bugs that 4.2 did not.

The usual suspect for driver problems are firewalls, virus scanners, and video drivers, but even those built into windows can have flaws. WinME can be a software conflict all by itself.  Make sure you have all patches for ME and IE installed first.



 

[Scott Lemmon]

Just as a test I tried the following - using the JD5000 config I went to the pop-up test page in IE5 (I don't have 6).  I reloaded it about 100 times (and I'm sure the admins are gonna hate me ;-).  The page loaded completely every time.  Once it did pause at the exact spot you mention while waiting for more data, but it still loaded completely intact.

For a harsher test I went to slashdot.org and loaded up some of the larger articles. First thing I noticed it doesn't seem to like the super opener much - really messes up the layout, but the page loaded every time (and I reloaded a bunch).  This is on Win98, so not even as crash proof as Win2k or XP is supposed to be. Never once did I get a crash, let alone a BSOD.

I'm not try to say it's not happening to people, but there must be some common factor for this problem that just isn't part of my system. All I can suggest is try different things like...

Does it happen in a different browser?  
  (try opera or mozilla for example)
Does it happen in the default.cfg too?
Does it happen if you disable persistent local connections?
  (look in the config dialog under HTTP)
Does it happen if you make the timeout longer/shorter?
Is the log window open or closed?
Does it happen if web/header filters are bypassed?
Are you using an external proxy?

Also what browser & version are you using?
What OS?
What (if any) other programs are running?

Remember if you want to see this fixed, then the more useful information you can provide the better.  

Regards,

Scott


 

[ridgydidge]

Scott, I can answer one of the above questions

The page reload problem does happen in the default set that comes with 4.3. It happens less often but it did just happen loading this site. It happens spasmodically, mainly, but not exclusively, in forum sites like this. I use xp pro, IE6 (skinned with MyIE 3.3) with Outpost as my firewall and Allegrosurf as cache controller. Change back to the mighty Proxo 4.2 the problem goes away.

Yay, back to using JD5000 for cruisy surfing, but give me a little time and I'll reload 4.3 and try out some of the other options

 

[pooms]

Just to add another data point: I've been using 4.3 constantly on my laptop
at work and at home and have had no serious problems. I've tried every
site that anyone on this board or the yahoo groups has said gave them
problems, and I've seen no problems at all. I described my computer
in another post (W2K Server & IE6). In addition I'm using ZoneAlarm,
although I'm also behind a NetGear router with firewall at home, and
a linux iptables-based firewall at work. And I'm more or less using Jor's
filter set.

 

[Scott Lemmon]

Hm - both a firewall and a additional proxy.  Anyone else with the problem see a common factor? Maybe IE6?

Another question I just thought of - if your filters tack something on the end (like the toolbar in the JD5000 set) does it appear on the half-loaded page?  That might tell me if it's getting cut off between the webserver and prox or prox and the browser. Although even that's not 100% since the browser may not render the ending HTML if some of the tags and aren't closed properly. It's possible if some middle section of the page went missing, the rest of the page might appear blank (esp. if it broke in the middle of a tag).

Also IE & Netscape have problems where, sometimes when you view source, you'll always see the first page load - even if following reloads are different (one of my big motivations for adding the view source option).  



 

[Scott Lemmon]

quote:
I described my computer in another post (W2K Server & IE6).

Hm, maybe scratch IE6 off the list then.

I've since been surfing in IE5 with the JD5000 set.  Gone to about 50 different sites - especially ones with big message boards, lots of HTML and images, etc. So far no problem.

For the descriptions it seems the cut-off usually happens while waiting for more data to arrive.  Could mean something somewhere is timing the connection out.





 

[Jor]

A few answers....

quote:Does it happen in a different browser?

I don't use MSIE, but it happened in Opera 6.03, 6.04, Mozilla 1.0, and Moz 1.1a. I never use your default.cfg, only my own set (and test filters).
Persistent local connections/timeout longer/shorter: never touch those settings... do have HTTP/1.1 and pipelining enabled.
I usually have the log window close... never had a crash with it open.
Never happened in bypass mode yet, and not using any external proxy.

Browsers: Opera 6.04 and Mozilla 1.1alpha.
WindowsXP professional, and the crashes only occur with Kerio loaded.[/quote]

 

[Jor]

quote:Another question I just thought of - if your filters tack something on the end (like the toolbar in the JD5000 set) does it appear on the half-loaded page?

Yes, always. No error messages from Proxomitron or the browser even, but the source is definately only partially there.

 

[Jor]

Just had the half-loading thing here on this forum, the only active filters were:

(Web):Tag manager, Alt attribute to title, and Style links
(Headers):Cache-Control removed: private, If-Modified-Since removed, and If-None-Match removed.

The page stopped loading IMMEDIATELY after a request was made for Local.ptron/prox.css (a CSS file I always include), log excerpt:

Match 1960: Alt attribute to title
BlockList 1961: in Bypass, line 28

+++GET 1961+++
GET /prox.css HTTP/1.1
User-Agent: Opera/6.04 (Windows; U)
Host: local.ptron
Accept: text/html, image/png, image/jpeg, image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, */*
Accept-Language: en
Accept-Charset: iso-8859-1;q=1.0, utf-8;q=1.0, utf-16;q=1.0, iso-8859-1;q=0.6, *;q=0.1
Accept-Encoding: deflate, gzip, x-gzip, identity, *;q=0
Referer: http://asp.flaaten.dk/pforum/
If-Modified-Since: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:19:28 GMT
Cache-Control: no-cache
TE: deflate, gzip, chunked, identity, trailers
Connection: keep-alive

+++RESP 1961+++
HTTP/1.1 304 Not Modified
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:59:49 GMT
Server: Proxomitron
Connection: close
Content-Length: 0
<end> 1960: Mark <end> 1
<end> 1960: Print URL in page
<end> 1960: Tame Javascript (part 2)
+++CLOSE 1961+++
<end> 1960: Mark <end> 2
+++CLOSE 1960+++

Can it be a (succesful) request for bweb..local.ptron/prox.css also causes the "parent" document to close sometumes?

 

[Scott Lemmon]

quote:
 Can it be a (succesful) request for bweb..local.ptron/prox.css also causes the "parent" document to close sometumes?

Only if the browser decides to close it.  Each connection happens in a different thread, and they're independent of each other as far as Proxomitron's concerned.

Does it happen if you don't load the file?  Also try playing with the persistent connection settings - that's really the only major change since 4.2 that might affect a browser.



 

[MorpheusDreamlord]

A bit more info on crashes.

Not disputing you (anyone good enuf to make Proxo in the first place knows his oats!!

But (there's always a butt)...

I've also personally seen (and read/heard of) a number of programs that, for various reasons (bad mem address/bad writes/etc) will trash a hard drive/currput memory/reboot windows (untrapped overwrite memory) (That game from 3 yrs ago is one, forgot it's name).

Proxo seems wonderful if you leave it alone, and just browse.

If you tick and untick filters, save, load, reload, etc the cfg file - just generally faff about, after a while (30 mins or so) I guarantee a crash.

I can repeat this anytime, any website - just keep faffing about with Proxo window opened (main, not log).


|
Come to the Dreaming...

[Scott Lemmon]

You have to understand various types of programs have various levels of access. Programs that use drivers have a very low level access. That means any error can not only crash the driver but screw things up in other program's memory as well.

It's quite random and may only crash a program unlucky enough to be in the right spot in memory. In fact the driver may not crash at all - only the other program. Normal user-level programs (where Proxomitron runs), are not allowed to write to memory they don't own. Doing so should only cause the program to crash but nothing else.

If a driver has a bug, a program may make a perfectly legal call that the driver intercepts, but if it handles it improperly you may get a BSOD or other types of crashes. The crashes may happen in the driver, in the program, or even some completely unrealted program running at the time.  There's often nothing the calling program can do - errors like this can go unnoticed until some software is unlucky enough to make a call in just the right way or at the right time.

When you get a BSOD the module it reports is where the crash happen, that's often (but not always) the driver at fault. Still, any driver can corrupt other drivers too. Other possible causes are usually hardware related (bad memory, overclocking too much, flakey mother board, etc.). Even these hardware errors may seem to only affect one program - at least for awhile, but just like with drivers, it's a crash just waiting to happen.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter. Please either accept what I'm saying or just don't use Proxomitron.  There's probably nothing I can do to help your crashes, and I can't offer "official" support for any PC other than my own.



 

[Arne]

I have been watching this thread very closely, and I now expect this particular problem to be closed.

Best wishes
Arne
Imici username= Arne

[Jor]

Thanks for checking into this problem Scott

I've switched to another firewall for now, no more crashing problems.

As for the partially loading pages -- I can live with that... reloading fixes it. Maybe I'll find what is causing it sooner or later, for now back to normal browsing with 4.3!